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RICS Podcasts

Welcome to The RICS Podcast, an exclusive podcast series bringing together expert guests to discuss the most pertinent, industry-shaping topics from the world of Chartered Surveying.


  • The Future of Quantity Surveying with Bola Abisogun OBE & Kevin O’Grady - #15

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    In the past decade there’s been an observable shift in the Quantity Surveying profession that’s demonstrated the persistent need to evolve and push the sector forward. So where could we be in another 10 years’ time…?

    Alan Muse hosts this week’s episode of The RICS Podcast, where we look ahead through the experienced lenses of our guests; Bola Abisogun OBE & Kevin O’Grady.

    Setting the scene for the decade to come, we hear how the evolution of information management promises to catalyse greater opportunities for collaboration, the skills that will make the ideal Quantity Surveyor in the future, and how other professions’ diversification into our sector will change how we view the QS role in years to come.

    This episode of The RICS Podcast covers:

    • Where the future of Quantity Surveying lies, and how it’s shifting away from purely CapEx concerns
    • The upcoming paradigm shift to looking at the long term lifecycle of assets, right up to their decommission
    • Impacts of increased sustainability focus on larger, global consultancies
    • Nurturing a greater sense of collaboration in the industry
    • How the QS role will evolve as other professions enter the space

    Episode highlights

    “We’re seeing a great drive now towards value, and a move away from just the Cap-Ex centric business cases that we're used to. So when we talk about the metric that quantity surveyors measure these days, that's going to make an informed value based decision that's going to drive better social value, economic and environmental outcomes.” - 6:15 - Kevin O'Grady

    “I like to think that we don't have a choice. If we want to stay relevant as a profession, with a specialist banner of cost management, we need to rise to the challenge of technology. Just like Kevin said, it's exponential in progress, and it's literally dictating the pace that we have to rise to in terms of staying relevant.” - 10:45 - Bola Abisogun OBE

    “If you can give a range to a client of where you think the sensitivity of your cost estimate is, and its maturity from one to nine, where it is in there, then you can make an informed decision about where that sits.” - 14:15 - Kevin O'Grady

    “The role of what I'm calling QS now, today is a cost manager. Quantity Surveying is a fraction of what we do, and I think it will become less important. Not less relevant, but we need to focus more on the strategic advisory.” - 18:30 - Bola Abisogun OBE

    “We talk a good game about collaboration, but we really don't know how to collaborate as a built environment, right? So the digital twin solutions - as the BIM model has done so very well - has forced collaboration by stealth. What we need now is for clients to lead on expectation management.” - 25:50 - Bola Abisogun OBE

    “The Quantity Surveyor in the future will need to be a systems thinker and have a programming mindset. They’ll need to be an active learner, have a strong STEM background, have an understanding of engineering, data driven decision making, that sort of stuff. Articulating data too; data is no good unless you can turn it into information. So there's a lot of increased technology.” - 34:00 - Kevin O'Grady

    “This isn’t about us, this is about the next generation. The next generation coming through needs to understand that, fundamentally, the role will be different, and it's up to RICS to give that vision of what Quantity Surveying in 2030 could look like today.” - 38:10 - Bola Abisogun OBE

    Links & references

    Royal Institute of Chartered Surveyors:

    Bola Abisogun OBE:

    Kevin O’Grady:

    Alan Muse:

  • Preparing for the New Rules of Conduct with Dayle Bayliss & JLL’s Luis Campbell - #14

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    This week, we’re taking a deep dive on the upcoming changes to the Rules of Conduct. In their current form they’ve been a part of the profession since 2007; Dayle Bayliss & Luis Campbell are two leading colleagues from the industry at the centre of the rules’ revisions.

    Dayle & Luis join host Christine O’Rourke to discuss the shift towards a values-based implementation of the rules, the increased focus on diversity, inclusion & sustainability, and where to go for further advice on the Rules of Conduct before February 2022.

    This episode of The RICS Podcast covers:

    • The reasons for redrafting the Rules of Conduct, and how they were determined to be fit for purpose
    • How we’ve shifted from prescribed approaches towards value-based approaches
    • Sustainability, Diversity & Inclusion’s increased focus in the redrafted rules
    • How to interpret the Rules of Conduct’s case studies, and use them to inform your own practices
    • Where to find further information, advice and clarification on the implementation of the new Rules of Conduct

    Episode highlights

    “One of the really powerful things that we had in our group is a lot of challenges. There was an ability to say, ‘I disagree, actually, we should be pushing much more on these rules. Let's be brave, let's be more courageous.’ Yes, some members may feel uncertain around what they might perceive as additional obligations or values, but actually when we really tease those points out, you realise these are things that actually most members probably already do, or would want to do anyway.” - 5:45 - Luis Campbell

    “On each of the rules there is a set of indicative behaviours. You find this in a number of other professional handbooks of other organisations, where they are trying to suggest that if you do these types of things, you are likely in compliance with the rules. It’s not conclusive, there are other ways of achieving compliance, but actually it’s quite helpful. ” - 8:50 - Luis Campbell

    “For me as a small practice, there's very little we do day to day where you could say, ‘Well, that's definitely diversity and inclusion’. But actually, it's having a certain mindset that you're aware of it, and it brings huge benefits by integrating that in part of your decision process along with sustainability.” - 13:00 - Dayle Bayliss

    “No doubt members will be undertaking their own research into the rules, because they want to understand actually, what does this mean and so on. But my role very much is to try and be the bridge in a way between members and RICS; that they understand from RICS what they need to do.” - 19:15 - Luis Campbell

    “It really animates people to be part of a sustainable solution to things, helping clients and others to do the right thing, which is rewarding. I think that helps with employee engagement and so many other things, which I think why it's fantastic that sustainability is actually part of the Rules of Conduct.” - 27:05 - Luis Campbell

    “We touched on how much will actually change for many. If you're doing the job well and successfully, you're already considering the aspects of the Rules of Conduct. It's about bringing these up to where actually you are practising. So for me it’s not a huge change, it just reinforces the need to remain relevant, which goes hand in hand with being a successful business.” - 34:20 - Dayle Bayliss

    “I very much doubt that people will see a change in terms of how complaints are handled, or the number of people who go through a disciplinary process. But hopefully what we can do is, through encouragement, guidance and advice, actually improve some of the experience that clients, members and firms have in making these kinds of ethical decisions.” - 37:45 - Christine O’Rourke

    Links & references

    Royal Institute of Chartered Surveyors:

    Dayle Bayliss:

    Luis Campbell:

    Christine O’Rourke:

    RICS Rules of Conduct: